Moldova - Mikhail Pogrebinsky:

Moldova (, - ...- Mikhail Borisovich, we, here in Moscow, on the night of December 31, for example, were told everything at once, thoroughly, after a telephone conversation between the presidents of Russia and the United States ... What Biden said, that Putin, Ushakov, aide to our president, held a large briefing on this topic for Russian and foreign journalists. And you there, in Kiev, is it a secret, or what, they keep everyone, how did Biden communicate with Zelensky on Sunday, January 2?

Macron spoke with Putin on the deployment of nuclear weapons in Belarus

- Yes, it is almost noon, we have 12 o'clock (my conversation with Pogrebinsky took place at that time, so before that he refused to be interviewed: there is very little information. - A.G.)

But, apart from Zelensky's short tweet, there is no further information about the conversation with Biden.

- Yes, I read the message on Twitter ... But maybe something - between the lines?

- For me, this (that is, brevity. - A. G.) means that at the meeting with Biden, a bad signal sounded for Zelensky.

- How to understand this?

- Now I will explain in a meaningful way what the bad signal is.

First. There are general words about support (Zelensky). If you read the White House messages, then there are a couple of points ... Here is one important point - that Biden allegedly reported about the negotiations with Putin and that both sides said good. There is no real content behind this. In addition, Biden kind of - well, pretends to inform Zelensky that he also spoke with President Putin. As if taking into account him, Zelensky, the presence in general in the world. (Apparently, Pogrebinsky wanted to say: in world politics - A.G.) There is nothing more meaningful here.

But the meaningful begins further. For example, I draw your attention to the point that is indicated in Washington (we are talking about the message from the White House. - A.G.), that Biden told Zelensky that he was interested in de-escalation.

- Well, this is Psaki, Biden's press secretary said, as I understand it.

- I do not know, in my opinion, these words are in the press release of the White House.

- And what does it mean?

- And the fact that if Biden had not been interested in Zelensky to say that de-escalation is needed, he would not have said this, he would have told Putin that, they say, let's de-escalate. Like - are you gathering troops here and so on. Since Biden says this to Zelensky, it means that he believes that it is he who should take some steps to de-escalate. Well, I would say so.

This corresponds to the leaks that arose in early December or there towards the middle, when there was a meeting of the participants in the Eastern Partnership. After that, information appeared that the senior comrades from the European Union allegedly did not include in the document, but explained to Zelensky: they were expecting him to take steps to de-escalate relations with the Russian Federation.

And they even pointed out that it is desirable that he lifted restrictions on closed channels (talking about opposition TV channels - A.G.) so that they could work. And yet, he stopped pursuing Medvedchuk. (The head of the political council of the party "Opposition Platform - For Life", which is under house arrest. - A.G.)

There was even such information. By the way, it is not refuted by the Ukrainian leaders, which means, apparently, it is.

And it also seems to look under such a brand: like, the West wants Ukraine to de-escalate relations with Russia. If there, in Europe, they build a policy directly - de-escalation of relations with Russia with specific requirements. Then there are no specific requirements, but there is an appeal: let's deal with de-escalation. It is important.

The next point, which is generally of principle, is that Biden mentioned the Minsk agreements that it is necessary to intensify work on the Minsk track. (And Zelenskiy's Twitter doesn't mention this at all.)

What does it mean to activate? This means that the Americans believe that it is time to demand from Ukraine that it begin to fulfill the political part of the Minsk agreements.

This is my guess, but I'm 99% sure that this is what we are talking about. Otherwise, why mention it?

As for the cease-fire, it has already begun without this, without this application. Without talking to Biden.

And what has not begun is that there is no activity on the Ukrainian side to implement the Minsk agreements. This means that this is all the more important since Zelensky did not mention them at all in his twitter message. It means that he is uncomfortable with this, he does not like it, it means that the oldest friend says to him - it is necessary, come on. And this is another reason, as it were, to treat this conversation as unpleasant for Zelensky.

Further, Zelensky himself wants, or his team is striving for this - to make a good face in a bad game. Zelensky mentions that it was also about reforms and de-oligarchization.

- And what kind of reforms are there?

- So, as far as reforms are concerned, everything is very vague, we do not know what it is. But we know that Americans and Europeans are very unhappy with the fact that Zelensky and his team actually blocked the election of the head of the specialized anti-corruption prosecutor's office (SAP).They (the Americans and the Europeans) insist that their own person be there, he has even been elected once, but Zelensky's team did not recognize this and is blocking everything. Biden drew Zelensky's attention to this.

And the last is Zelensky's mention of de-oligarchization.

You can make a hypothesis.

- Oh please...

- My hypothesis is that if Biden spoke about some kind of de-oligarchization, then, most likely, that it is necessary to finally solve the Kolomoisky problem. (Ukrainian oligarch. - A. G.) This is my guess.

- That is, the Americans demand to understand with Kolomoisky - in the sense, with his behavior and so on?

- Yes, just in the United States, criminal cases have long been instituted against him ...

- OK, it is clear.

- And more recently, Zelensky said that "we will link our sanctions with the American ones." Roughly speaking, if the Americans have some kind of sanctions, "then we will also introduce them." (Against Russia? - A.G.)

As regards Kolomoisky, not just sanctions, but a number of criminal cases have been initiated, and it is clear that they (the Americans) seem to want these criminal cases to be considered, including in Ukraine, under Zelensky.

This is my hypothesis, I cannot say that I am sure of this, nevertheless, it is clear why Zelensky mentions deoligarchization. He wants to pretend, like his team, that Biden supports his war against Akhmetov. (Also a Ukrainian oligarch. - A. G.) That's how I understand it.

- So ... And what predictions will you still have?

- For Moscow, rather, a positive outlook. In the sense that the Americans are trying, let's say, to start putting pressure on Kiev, not only in the sense that Kiev does not provoke Moscow. Moreover - to take an active position on the settlement of the crisis ... And in general, - not to get caught up in the big Russian-American business.

That is, for Moscow it is positive. And then we'll see.

Yes, there is a phrase that the United States "supports the territorial integrity" of Ukraine. But here it is simply impossible to say anything else, because this is a repetition of what has been said regularly and for a long time.

- Understood. Thanks a lot.

- Dumb for scho. (Translated from Ukrainian - "not at all")

Moldova - Mikhail Pogrebinsky: